perhaps the first example of this idea. And we do have to think about possibilities, because eventually it leads to more firm answers, but we needn't think that every thing we think is automatically true. path, and between my Father in Heaven and me. Should you want a space where you can harangue, belittle, mock, and incite people to contention for their deeply held, sacred beliefs then by all means create some forums with your own rules. The passage I was given is found in D&C 76 which also happens to be about the Mysteries of Godliness: D&C 76:41-44 principle, it is not important to know. Satan will do everything he can to create doubt and to try and destroy all truth. Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. Given George Laub's explicit summary of the King Follett sermon and the short time between JS' death and these ordinations performed in the Nauvoo period, it seems very likely that the doctrine underlying the ordinations originated with JS. It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. I no longer depended on him to get us there. How does this concept coexist with the idea of eternal families? Multiple Mortal Probations The final theology on reincarnation on this plane we will look at in this article will be the Brighamite idea of multiple mortal probations (MMP). This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. 24This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. That one would be tempted to say this life is just too hard. And thank you Greg. And a gate symbolizes a new aera of time. I know that this is true. I always thought it unfair that I would be judged on the privileged (but hard) Life I have lived, while another may have been born into a leper colony in India. Officially, Mormons are supposed to be almost entirely vegetarian. thousands of years for this day when Christians would awaken to the doctrine of That's the gist of it. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. Jacob 4:8. Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. I do have a question though. So, I'll just comment that thepoints you bring up nicely illustrate some of the basictension that this theology introduces. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations You know that the LDS church doesn't even believe in past lives, or "multiple probations", and there is a long list of other problematic ideas that Chad, Julie, Lori and the rest cooked up that is not in accordance to LDS doctrine. The thought of multiple probations is really interesting to me and honestly makes a lot of sense. Thank you so very much for your great insight and belief in God and the scriptures!! Thank you for the clarity youre bringing to this doctrine. That is a possibility, but it's more likely that his late teachings that can be interpreted as reincarnation are exactly that, considering how many of his contemporaries understood that he did teach it some form or another. their state became a state of probation, 2 Ne. and forms participate in forms) This form of Elijahness (which is to be distinguished from the individual Elijah) is reincarnated in that many individuals can participate in this form. It gives context for the possibility that aborted and miscarried babies, or even inexperienced humans who leave the world prematurely can still have a shot at life and prove themselves (Abraham 3:25). Multiple Mortal Probations - The Fellowship of Christ I still dont know, or even pretend to know, but I do know that some day I will know and it will make perfect sense to me. Lori Vallow Daybell's older sister became the latest family member to testify against her sibling at the "doomsday cult" mom's ongoing murder trial in the 2019 slayings of her two children. First, one reason for living in multiple probations is to complete work started in earlier lives. Here's another one from the New Testament people use to support reincarnation: Both Brigham and Heber were indoctrinated in the principles and I suspect others, particularly W.W. Phelps. He has some ideas that are popular among Snufferites (such as some version of multiple mortal probations). The new day starts at a moment no one can see very much (its a kind of a hope). Have We Placed Our Hopes in the Arm of Flesh? If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. Eternal Lives, Past Lives and Reincarnation - Latter-day Commentary I simply found that it merited investigation. Eric, dangerous doctrine. With those multiple witnesses I could no longer question or deny what the Savior hadtold me. Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. [6] When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . Required fields are marked *. p.104 - see also Documentary History of the Church 2:304-307 I told . He wrote that Joseph stated, "Now the history of Josephus in Speaking of angels came down and took themselves wives of the daughters of men, See Geneses 6 Chapter 1-2, verses. What an incredible doctrine of mercy and hope! I'm not convinced that we know the basis for this train of thought (which of course not all the brethren agreed with) However it's certainly very plausible that it's from these events that Brigham developed his theology - possibly due to ambiguity in the original events. It is the explanation for why some of those I know and love As it is now, one could easily conclude God respects persons, because some of us clearly get benefits others never had. Another George Laub journal entry on JS' Sermon In the Grove seems to confirm that this is how Laub understood it. Im sealed to my husband. In D&C 132:55 where the Lord is speaking of Joseph Smith he says, and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundred-fold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. It appears to me that children, and crowns of eternal lives are two different things. Answered: Choose one innovative idea the Church | bartleby It has been referred to many times in this essay and the comments as doctrine. LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. Praise God and Praise the Lord! despite my human weakness. Thank you Kim. Multiple Mortal Probations Multiple Mortalities Who do I end up with ultimately in the celestial kingdom? I believe in multiple probations and am thankful for this knowledge. millions of people from around the world are part of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . I know the doctrine has come to me, and indeed to many hundreds (if not These ideas make sense and just feel right to me. I have to be honest. It's kind of like how in our times people will say stuff like, "What if the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother?" The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS . Jenimarie, I love your experience and witness. Thank you for this essay, you have a way of expressing your thoughts and knowledge so eloquently and with so much clarity. What happened was that I would hear a name in my mind and immediately a person on the other side of the girl would introduce themselves and then they would thank me for helping them in their trialed, this was not for 1 probationary earth but many. But in the essay I kept hoping for a more in depth explanation of why and how this could be considered LDS doctrine. Daybell seems to have emphasized the idea of a Millennial Church that was being formed under his direction: The LDS church is still God's church, but the Church of the Firstborn, this. Dorthea, with what youve written, Im embarrassed to say I hadnt considered your insights on baptism in the context as a symbol for MP, but I feel you are wise to have picked up on it. 25Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. It should be made clear that the denomination Brigham Young founded in 1851, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has rejected these teachings. were transfigured before him. So for example Quinn's claim that the three degrees of glory arises from the three levels (places) of emanation in Plotinus that was in the culture around Joseph requires that Joseph interpret this in very non-Platonic ways. In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. Further, Mormon doctrine asserts that people can become gods. 8 of the Most Bizarre Mormon Beliefs - Purpose in Christ Thank you again for your testimony and to stand boldly for truth. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. There is an answer. Thank you for taking the time to read this and comment! Then one early morning between 3-4am I was told by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ this very Doctrine of Multiple Probations, I was shown much about my Previous Lives and how extensive those lives had been. When we get to where Jesus is, he will be just as far ahead of us again in exaltation." It is exciting to be on the earth again in these last days and to participate in the ongoing Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Folly of Multiple Mortal Probations - BOOK OF MORMONISM Never at any time in my research and doctrinal interests have zombies, adultery, and murder ever remotely crossed my mind. Thanks for sharing your witness. Multiple Mortal Probations - The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ Even when I was small, I felt that some spirits come to be tested and other (superior) spirits come to test! Following is the summary of the January 1846 Nauvoo Temple Record from the Multiple Mortal Probations document: Brigham Young laid hands on Heber C. Kimball and "Ordained him to the Godhead, and that he would act as the Savior to a world or worlds." This can be meant spiritually or physically this two sides mirror each other. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. Shapes and forms can not be seen, but you can hear, sense and feel things Sometimes it seems to be the part of the day where one is in despairBut at that point, where no light can be seen the new day is already beginningSometimes it feels like only the hope of the rising sun (son) will carry you to the first sunbeam And when the sun or the son, as you call it, starts rising there come new possibilities or perspectives along. DRAFT. One can know truth from error. specifics with others. It explains how many in the premortal council of heaven had become noble and great (Abraham 3:22). One example of this is the multiple scripture references to go no more out. May we find Him now. Mahalo for bringing this to light! This group gives us a safe platform in which we discuss the trials, tribulations, prophecies and signs of the last dispensation of which we live in. The strongest argument for an A/G like doctrine in Nauvoo to my eyes is William Law's expose of the potential of God to fall. are now throwing the baby out with the bathwater in what has been deemed a Thank you for sharing this. widowsmitereport.wordpress. If learning, progression, and the development of the soul is the reason for life, then I don't see how that is possible with just one life time. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. The thought that there could be no progression after judgment felt to contrast We seem to continually become more and more of who and what we are. THE PROBATIONARY TEST OF MORTALITY. Apostle Lorenzo Snow said that "his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith, was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband." When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. Harold, your thoughts and perspective are priceless. alteration of what seems to be the once purer doctrine taught long ago. the handicapped, the mentally challenged, the emotionally disturbed, the third world poor, MANY have come to test the rest of us. What I was looking forward to about eternity was the end of suffering. Libraries. Latest from Saturday LDS General Conference : Speakers discuss mental health, pandemic, church attendance and obedience. I admire your truth seeking and truth-recognizing abilities. The way Christ had already advanced to Godhood in premortality, and the associated true definition of condescension; the way Lucifer had become advanced in his power and priesthoods before becoming a fallen angel. Since I hardly want to finish this round, I definitely don't want to do "multiple mortal probations." Ill be looking forward to hearing more!!! against the adversary with greater fervor. ABC News. For behold, I Maybe I will need to review a few things I learned from 5th grade but I feel like it would be a waste of time to start 5th grade over again. The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. MARIA, Your email address will not be published. Kim, that is a very insightful point that would seem to be a witness Of truth hidden in plain sight that if reincarnation is a false doctrine, that there must be an opposite, which I feel my spirit was first introduce to in the temple. Growing up in the Church, I had the same impressions as you regarding our exaltation. How tragic! By . This implications started with JS' apparent teaching that God the Father was a Christ during his mortal probation. I view these gifts largely to be the result of mortal I realized it was up to me to ask, seek, knock, learn and apply with or without him. Benjamin Seeker Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. Also, I didn't mention it in the OP, but I believe Michael Quinn documents an influential relationship between JS and Alexander Neibaur, who was a convert from Jewish Cabala and who related reincarnation-like Cabala sourced ideas in a couple of Times and Seasons articles during the Nauvoo era. I like you, have had a sure witness even as I am writting this that it is true. Ive had them too, and feel Ive received answers to them. Joseph Smith and Multiple Mortal Probations - Page 7 - General By That this doctrine will promote casualness and laziness. I learned long ago to stay quiet in Sunday school. . I'm very pleased and honored to have this opportunity to meet and worship with you on this special occasion. to inherit the same glory, the same power and the same exaltation, until you ascend the throne of eternal power the same as those who are gone before. Thank you!! With this possible equivalency between Micheal and the Holy Ghost in mind and JS' probable belief that all were to serve as Holy Ghosts prior to being Christs, JS likely believed the Nauvoo endowment was a representation of one stage of what each heir of the celestial kingdom was to pass through in their climb up the ladder of exaltation. I truly appreciate your time and great efforts in doctrinal essays and your wonderful books. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thanks for standing up and witnessing even amongst the risk of severe persecution. May I share my own experience that has allowed me to know and discern truth of such doctrine as MMP. This life is the time and the day of our probation. I said, Wait a little. I did not reject it, but I could not understand it.[a] This is one of my favorite examples of how to receive new concepts with an open heart. I remember feeling a heavy emotion even as a very young person that I would now call despair, when I first learned this. Thanks for sharing your own experience, which is validating and comforting to know the Lord is answering many of His childrens questions! I believe that I am a child of a God, a child of a loving Heavenly Father and Mother with a divine heritage. It makes so much sense to me. Multiple probations is not part of the doctrine of the Church, neither are we claiming that it is. I can only answer that through study, prayer, fasting, and a fair amount of grief, I have paid the price to know. I refer to it as the doctrine of eternal lives which includes the idea of Multiple Mortal Probations. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving fathers heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain.. Laub wrote, "For we are to go from glory to glory and as one is raised to a higher, so the next under him may take his degree and so to take the exaltation through the regular channel. I understand the principle of Condensension and know of my involvement there. Over the past few years it has been my privilege, as well as many who I know, to have naturally and individually come upon the doctrine recently called Multiple Probations. But, I know this is absolutely trueAnd thank the Stalwart!! Thanks! Love you all! This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. ??? I now know for myself it is true doctrine. See 1 Corinthians 15:40-44. I do not hold a Group Guidelines: 1. Others feel if it were Is the idea of "Multiple Mortal Probations" doctrine? - Ask Gramps Multiple Mortal Probations Article - Page 11 - LDS Freedom Forum Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. This concept found me. And now I know that the lower I choose to descend, the more opportunity I will have to ascend higher. It boggles my mind the intricacies of the plan and yet how simple it is! Agency took on a whole new meaning. "And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. It is time to live in faith not fear. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father, so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory, so that Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before; it is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said. For example, in 1860, Orson Pratt wrote, "I heard brother Young say that Jesus had a body offlesh and bones, before he came (to earth and) he was born of the Virgin Mary, it was so contrary to every revelation given." Thank you for sharing your witness Cheryl! These ware resurrected Bodies, Violated the Celestial laws. Do you have a direct link? While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. You are obviously gifted and inspired by God. "sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of a kingdom (glory)." Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) Eternal Progression, and Progression between Kingdoms The Flag of the Kingdom of God Apostasy Unchangeability of the Doctrines of Salvation and Exaltation Fallibility or Infallibility of Men Appointed as Church Leaders Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy I continue to find supporting evidence in scripture and temple ordinances. through contrasts. Your peaceful witness strengthens my own. I am he. I started to realize that multiple probations is one of the big themes in the scriptures. I was so happy to receive glimps and glimmers of this doctrine, as you would call it, through the scriptures. He was the first director of Religious Studies in the college administration. It makes wonderful sense when you consider how merciful and how loving our Savior Jesus Christ is especially when we are gifted with agency both pre and post mortality. According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God's commandments. D&C 132:22-25 can easily be interpreted that way: 22For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. Apparently, Laub wasn't the only who understood the King Follett Sermon this way. 10 Crazy Little-Known Rules of Mormon Life - Listverse Is she the main source? This helps restore piecesand so the restoration continues! After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. I remember when my sister Julie first introduced multiple probations to me, the concept seemed like it could be true. Perhaps the clearest example of this is a statement recorded by Nauvoo saint, George Laub. I dont necessarily have all the answers there. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. It is headquartered in Manti, Utah, United States, where as of 2004 it maintained a membership of 300 to 500 adherents. The LDS church teaches the Pauline principle of many degrees in heaven. WHY ONE of my sons and I have always said we CAME here with a testimony finally clicked and I feel so blessed because it isnt that easy for some to believe. It is like a fractal of the whole thing. Thank you for raising this important point Diane. visionary, who can discern spirits, or who possess extraordinary compassion, The purpose was not to claim that it is the doctrine of the Church, as we have no authority in that regard. In my opinion Alma 5 and Alma 12, in their entirety, are both worthy of consideration along side many other scriptures that follow a pattern which is familiar to me. Who are the Sons of Perdition? Thats kind of you to say. I continue to rejoice and find joy in seeking and discovering truth. In this world of learning I can progress to 6th grade, and then continue on through junior high and high school and graduate. Mahalo for your light, your love for truth, and your love for us all! 104-105.) Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy; . Those Brothers and Sisters bore witness to me additionally of the Truth of multiple Probationary Earths, my witnesses are in the hundreds and I cannot deny them, Harold, thank you for sharing your special experience and witness. I feel a longing and hope that I can learn and progress for as long as I choose to without time limits. Richards wrote, "Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.". Bruce R. McConkie was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when this fireside address . Thanks for sharing! Multiple Probations: A Lost Doctrine Remembered Aug 11, 2022. by Eric Smith .
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